Spank Me Till I Come & the non-sexual formal fellatio “thank you”

— Noto Bene: This is a repost from my blog. I posted it over there first, because I wasn’t sure it would be welcome over here, but I have been assured it’s okay, so I’m delighted to share it here, which was the first place I thought of posting it! I hope all my fellow PB-ers and our dear readers enjoy it, and it provokes good thought and discussion. —

I’ve been organizing the books in our apartment, as they are threatening to take over the place, and I found this gem among Papa Otter’s erotica collection.


The cover is more funny than arousing (to me, anyway) but what is lovely and even in it’s own way arousing is the innocence of the image. No worries about feminism, here, no angst about if spanking your wife is okay, no confusion about whether discipline should have sex involved (the author thinks it should, if you can’t tell by the spanker’s humongous erection!) — these are some happy ’60s swingers who explore their desires with an almost child-like innocence.

The book cheerfully merges domestic discipline with sex (and swinging, because once you find out the neighbours like spanking, too, the obvious next step is to spank and fuck the neighbour’s wife, non?) in a way that is very heartening for me, because Papa Otter and I find they mingle very well indeed, and I was very surprised when I came across the DD [Domestic Discipline] community and found out that I wasn’t supposed to want to mix those things!

My favourite example of this (and I really need to carry the URL for this site around with me, because when I tell people about it they just can’t believe me) is this fabulous article, Thanking the HOH — The “Formal Thank You” as a Non-Sexual Act. I don’t know how I found it, but once I realized what I’d come across, I had a reaction that combined all the best aspects of shooting my drink out my nose and punching the air and shouting, “Yes!”

I’ve long held that sometimes something can be so ugly that it passes some point and becomes beautiful — notable for the sheer intensity of the traits that make it ugly. It has to be perfectly ugly to do this — if it falls short at all, it’s still just plain ugly. I’m not saying that people who want to live like this are ugly, or that their chosen lifestyle is, but it seems to me that, as you will see below, it’s been taken to the point where all you can do is regard it in awe, no matter how much you may disagree.

Before I begin, you should know that the author, “C,” is a woman. This must of course inform our reading of the text….

Let’s get right to it, then! I start us from a couple paragraphs in:

Has any woman ever wondered how hard her HOH’s job really is? Being the head and leader of the family can be a very tiring and frustrating task.

  • He has all the preparation it takes to plan a suitable punishment to fit her misbehaviour.
  • He has to sometimes wait and watch her carefully, before administering punishment, to see if she is truly prepared to learn her lesson.
  • He has the stress over whether or not she has been adequately scolded, prior to her punishment.
  • He has the physical discomfort in his hand or arm from repeatedly spanking her bottom.
  • He has the stress over whether it is his fault for not punishing her effectively, if she has repeated the same transgression over a relatively short space of time.
  • He has the stress over whether it is his fault (the ineffectiveness of scolding/punishment) if he fails to bring her to tears.
  • Not to mention the sheer unpleasantness of spanking his woman to tears and beyond. The unpleasantness of causing her to cry, of directly causing pain to her bottom for her own good.

I have read a number of posts where women vehemently deny that their HOH [Head of Household] is stressed at all! In fact they proclaim that he is deriving immense satisfaction from punishing his wife by spanking her to catharsis and beyond! Perhaps these women are confusing a punishment spanking, Pre-emptive spanking or Maintenance Discipline with the pleasures of an erotic spanking? Surely their man cannot be so cruel as to enjoy disciplining their beloved woman until she is weeping remorsefully from both the pain and shame of her spanking? The Loving Domestic Discipline lifestyle is very clear in its message. It is the use of corporal punishment to eliminate negative behaviours and enhance positive behaviours. In short, it is modifying the woman’s behaviour so that she can obtain her very best potential as a woman, wife and mother.

This is after a list which lovingly details how terribly, terribly hard it is for the poor old HOH to have to take on the thankless task of beating disciplining his wife. Honestly, I don’t know how you could ask that much of anyone! And of course, the HOH derives no pleasure from it! None! I quote the last item from the list, “Not to mention the sheer unpleasantness of spanking his woman to tears and beyond. The unpleasantness of causing her to cry, of directly causing pain to her bottom for her own good.” (!)

I tell you, I blame the women! If we weren’t all so damned poorly behaved and wilful and possibly even too stupid to learn except by havin’ it beat into our thick skulls, well, we wouldn’t put so much stress on those poor HOHs, who come home from a hard day in the coal mines, and then have to deal with taking their wives over their laps for the “Hard and Thankless Task” of a disciplinary spanking. It’s a crime against humanity — at least male humanity!

The question which arises is how to adequately thank the HOH for all his efforts?

Of course it does! Please, don’t stop!

It goes without question that the woman verbally thanks her HOH after she has been spanked. However, some women recognise that their HOH has gone to great lengths to discipline them. Some women are so grateful that they instinctively fall to their knees and engage in what is known in LDD [Loving Domestic Discipline] circles as a “formal thank you.”
A “formal thank you” is where the woman fellates her man after discipline. Some people have mistaken the “formal thank you” as a sexual act, but nothing could be further than the truth. [My emphasis] The “formal thank you” is not the same as oral sex – it is not overtly sexual. Discouraged couples who are trying to separate discipline from sex, should rest assured that the “formal thank you,” is something completely different.

Oh, PHEW! I was getting nervous for a moment, there! I now rest assured that a post-spanking blowjob has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with sex. Thank the gods for that! You certainly wouldn’t want to ask that noble, selfless, unsung HOH to then have to perform marital duties — that would go too far, too far I tell you!

It just can’t get better than this, I hear you think. Ah, but you are wrong!

After she has been punished and humbled so that she is crying very hard, sexuality is probably be the last thing on her mind. She will not be able to think of the technique, if her mind is still emotionally tuned in to the causes of her misbehaviour. She will not be able to fellate her man sexually, if her head is still resonating from the scolding and her attentions are drawn to her freshly spanked bottom. She may be sobbing quite hard and find it difficult to breath. She may find her man’s penis very wet from her tears and saliva. As she continues crying she may be struggling to gasp for breath and keep herself from choking. Although there is nothing overtly sexy in a “formal thank you” many LDD women find that it is a deeply feminine and intuitive act. An act which instinctively benefits them as women. It is something they instinctively do to show their utmost gratitude to their man. Her discipline can, therefore, remain non-sexual, as long as she is not getting any “direct” sexual gratification herself. There is no reason why the woman should not learn her lesson from her discipline and formally thank her man. In other words, her discipline would not be devalued by becoming over sexualised. The “formal thank you” is a very natural and intuitive way for a woman to show her deep felt gratitude and respect.

Alright, this is all so much that I need to recap to get my head around it! Basically, it is NOT sex if the woman is so upset that she couldn’t possibly feel even the slightest twinge of sexual pleasure or satisfaction. Indeed, that would “devalue” the experience, because you wouldn’t want there to be a sexual connection between an HOH and “his woman” in these moments. You know, thinking about it, I wonder if it really is fair to the HOH to have to accept this emotional burden from his woman. Indeed, “C” goes on to say that, “Besides their conflicting emotions, the HOH may feel physically and emotionally drained, especially if the woman’s punishment has gone on for a long time.” I mean, think of it, there’s the poor HOH thinking his sad (thankless) duty is finally done, and he can have a nice cup of tea and get into his warm, comfy bed, and suddenly, his woman has not just forced this unpleasant duty upon him, but NOW she has all of these intense emotions, drops to her knees, and clomps her mouth ’round his cock. Makes it all wet with her tears and snot, too! (That’s just plain inconsiderate!) Look at the position she’s put him in! (And no snickering from the back of the class — I see you over there!) I mean, NOW what can he do? She’s forced him to have to punish her and he is terribly stressed about having to cause her this pain — and now she needs to drool all over his cock, because,

by being allowed to suck on his most manly possession, the most potent symbol of his masculine authority, the woman is reaffirmed of her position in the relationship. She is reaffirmed as his submissive and obedient partner. She is comforted and soothed by her man’s organ in a similar way an infant is comforted and soothed by their mother’s breast. It is a profoundly deep and reaffirming experience for the woman.

So really, it’s all about HER comfort, HER needs. Never about HIS! And now he’s just going to have to suffer through this unwanted act, again, all for her.

It’s just disgusting what we women ask for from our, men, isn’t it! Honestly, one does have to wonder if by guilting her HOH into providing this service for her, this act isn’t actually akin to forced sex, because really, the poor man has been manipulated into this terrible situation, with no way out but shooting his wad! (Although it’s not sexual, of course! Thank the gods for that, huh?)

There are other men, however, who do find immense sexual gratification from fellatio after discipline. This is also very natural. The important thing is, for his woman not to gain any direct sexual gratification from it herself. Otherwise, the main purpose of her discipline will become clouded, she will not learn such a valuable lesson.

Oh, wait, so it IS SEX? You mean it’s natural for a man to experience some “sexual gratification from fellatio after discipline” (I wouldn’t go so far as to say immense, would you? I mean, that’s getting a trifle full of yourself!)

But of course, this is only okay if it’s just for the man. And really, one can only hope the poor schmucks who get stuck in this hopeless, thankless situation, providing discipline and cocks to suck upon day in and day out, can at least find some reward, beyond the otherwise intangible rewards of fixing and correcting your woman….

I’m going to leave full-sarcasm mode now, and speak seriously and honestly. My feelings about this are very mixed. On the one hand, I find this a hot fantasy. My own fantasies are primarily made up of being punished or abused by someone who then takes sexual advantage of me — and indeed, as I masturbate, I think about how all I feel is pain and humiliation, and they get all the pleasure.

And I generally want to be very open-minded, include everyone in the “It’s your kink, as long as no one looses an eye, please go to town!” attitude I feel is so important for every kink person to have.

But. But.

When the person is insisting that it’s NOT a kink, it’s all natural and normal and has nothing to do with those kinky people over there, it’s hard to welcome them to the party. I certainly don’t mind people playing more intensely than me, or having it more a part of their lives than I do, but it seems a bad idea to start from a lie — the lie that you are not kinked funny in this regard — and the proof of that pudding is that you have to have a sub-culture to discuss this stuff in. If it was really normal as apple pie, it would be a part of the over-arching culture. But it ain’t “normal” — normal are the vanillas who don’t want to be spanked or spank anyone, except maybe now and again on those extra-frisky nights….

And then there is the delusion that this is not “sexual.” Let’s leave off the whole saying a sexual act isn’t a sexual act point, because I’ve dealt with that enough in the above sarcasm (and Bill Clinton made a fool of himself in court, saying, “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is,” which this whole thing does bring to mind…). What I mean is, when people are figuring out they want this stuff, their thinking about it is exactly the same as any other fantasy. It doesn’t matter what the ingredients of a fantasy are if the end result is blood rushing to the pink bits, your breath catching at a particularly hot thought, and other general signs of mental and physical arousal. And I’d put good money down on it that the majority of DD people have masturbated to these thoughts a time or two hundred. I don’t care what you think about while you stroke yourself, the fact of the matter is that those thoughts have caused a tingling that the sexual act of masturbation can satiate.

And what is wrong with it being sexual?! Are we puritans, that if anything gets the slightest taint of the sexual, it is no longer to be trusted? Why can’t we all just be adults here and say, “Yes, I’m living in a DD relationship because it fulfils all of my fantasies.” Why can’t a man be aroused by disciplining his woman? Why can’t she be aroused by the fact that she’s in a relationship where she can be disciplined at any time at his whim? Does the fact that that’s something you masturbate about make it somehow less powerful? (Indeed, I would say it makes it much more profound!)

And if it is not sexual, why does it have all the trappings of sex? Why is being naked the optimal situation for the punished women? Sure it makes a person feel vulnerable (if they are not happy with their bodies, otherwise it might make them feel sexy and powerful!) but you can get the same effect finding some clothing that they find humiliating to wear, like an old school uniform or an ugly shapeless “punishment robe.” Papa Otter will sometimes put me in a really ugly leotard made for teenager which flattens me where I’d like to bulge, and makes me bulge where I’d like to be flat. It is far, FAR worse than being starkers – in that thing I am entirely “stripped of pride,” and I really feel like I have “nothing to hide behind,” far more so than just being nekkid as a jay-bird would do.

I’ve gone into why a blowjob is actually sex (despite Mr. Clinton’s creative perjury), and really, as long as we aren’t in self-delusion-land, I don’t think anyone will disagree that blowjobs are indeed sex.

And then there’s the spanking it and of itself. Why, if you don’t want discipline to have the least little bit to do with sex, would you make the core of your discipline about the bare buttocks, which are an erogenous zone! If you want non-sexual discipline, you have a plethora of options. From childish punishments such as writing lines, mouth soaping or taking cod liver oil, hand-strapping, and denying internet/phone privileges (which would easily serve the function of making a woman feel small and vulnerable and child-like), to punishments meant for the adult woman, like taking away her credit cards and leaving her only enough money to do the grocery shopping, having to write an essay on what she has done wrong, being made to do her least favourite chores or do chores normally done by the HOH – or any number of other options – I’m sure all of you who are reading this could toss out several off the top of your heads.

When you put all of those things together, the inescapable conclusion is that this is all mixed inextricably with sex. And there is no problem with that.

The problem comes in when people decided sex is bad, and cannot be a part of their discipline relationships because that would make it kinky, or otherwise not something they can accept about themselves.

As I’ve said, I find the fantasy of punishment-that-is-not-just-part-of-an-SM scene very hot, as well as being, um, highly encouraged to do sex acts that are painful or embarrassing to me, or just otherwise mean that I don’t orgasm in the moment. I understand those fantasies so very well.

And I do empathize with the desire to be so deep within a fantasy that you not intruded upon by reality at all. And I really think that’s what this is – a desire to make these fantasies come as true as possible in the society we have today. I don’t mind that part of it at all, and I do appreciate that to keep that fantasy bubble intact you have to pretend it really is real. But I just can’t be okay with self-delusion.

If you want to live this way, more power to you, but before you dive in the deep end, please just admit that you are actually going to be swimming in the pool!

8 thoughts on “Spank Me Till I Come & the non-sexual formal fellatio “thank you”

  1. Sara

    Zillie, so here’s the deal (as I see it). People are mostly terrified of sex. They don’t want to admit they have it, want it, and they sure as heck ain’t kinky or weird. And being weird is doing anything that the rest if the click does not admit to. Think about it. Oral sex is still illegal in Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Virginia and Washington D.C. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that sodomy laws are unconstitutional on June 26, 2003. However, some states still attempt to enforce their laws. Virginia, Oklahoma, and North Carolina among them. The U.S. Military enforces its sodomy regulation. I am not even going to get into Islamic Countries and sexual rules. Given this general climate of sexual repression and fear, it makes sense to deny, deny, deny!
    Yes, in the Dd community sex is most often separated from punishment with almost a sense of righteousness, as if spanking for punishment is anything but sexual. Punishment is serious thus not sexual, is the commonly held belief, because if it were sexual it would not then be something to be avoided, not be un pleasurable, not be real punishment. It seems for many people too hard to think beyond black and white terms to consider the complexity of the human experience, where we can in fact love and hate at the same time, want and avoid, feel a myriad of mixed and even contradictory feelings.
    What is missing in C’s scenario is a basic understanding of human sexuality. The reality is that our sex, our interest, our libido, our fantasy life, is a living breathing part of every cell within us. Infants are sexual. The very old are sexual. As long as we are alive our sexuality is an integral part of us. Like our sense of touch is a tactile and neurological function that never is completely shut down whether we are consciously aware of it or not, our sexuality spans our lifetime and never completely shuts off.
    I guess it is my view that people in the Dd community are as hung up about their sexuality anyone else. I agree, it is kind of silly though, all the pretending. I know for a fact that you can fantasize about a punishment but not want one. You can enjoy the idea and memory of a punishment spanking and hate the actual experience. The spankers and the spanked in Dd relationships are usually aroused by REAL punishment, as much as they truly prefer not to land there. I would say C is just wrong.

  2. Zille Defeu

    So, Sara, what you are saying is that the answer to my question, “Are we puritans…?” is simply, “Yes”? 😉
    Seriously, do I know that I live in a warm and comfy sex-positive bubble in the SF Bay Area, and that it’s colder and harder in other parts of the U.S. (“C”, amazingly, seems to be from the U.K. Since they sent all their closed-minded anti-sex religious nutters over to *us*, there is no excuse for Brits not to be superior in this regard!)
    It’s just very sad to me that someone has gone along the path of self-discovery enough to admit they are into spanking, but then turned it into a path of self-denial. I mean, I understand the notion of “baby steps,” but in “C”‘s scenario, once you get as far as the “LDD” world, you then must remain there, never to see forward progress in yourself as a whole and healthy sexual being.
    Again, I’m NOT talking about people who fantasize about punishment scenarios that are not overtly sexual. I’m not against punishments that don’t include sex. (Because being against both of those would make me a hypocrite!) I’m merely railing against people who say that post-spanking blow-jobs aren’t sex!
    I know I have fantasized about a punishment before it happens, and then fantasized about it afterwards, loving the memories. But in the moment the punishment was happening, I wanted to be *anywhere but there*. You can suffer through a punishment, and even learn your lesson from it and not make that mistake again, but still be someone for whom this whole process is erotic and central to your sexuality.
    Indeed, the reason I love it so much is because it takes a negative situation — in this case the submissive wife messing up and her HOH needing to discipline her, as per their agreement, and turns it into a positive one. Instead of having the HOH be stressed and miserable, he’s happy that he has this chance to do something about the situation that not only works and resolves tensions, but lets him play out his fantasies. On her end, she is happy for the exact same reasons.
    When you have painful fantasies, playing them out is going to hurt!
    It took me a long time to learn that, but now that I understand it, a punishment to me is so much more rewarding both before, during, and after.
    The other problem with denying the sexuality of the situation is that then you are left with the very problem that you bring up, “because if it were sexual it would not then be something to be avoided, not be un pleasurable, not be real punishment.”
    But if you can’t get far enough in your development to admit you are a masochist, or not a masochist but just craving the attention and intensity that punishment provides, then you aren’t going to be able to work with that knowledge to ensure that punishments really *ARE* discouraging bad behaviour, and don’t lead to subs acting out to get attention.
    For instance, if I hadn’t realized I was a masochist, I wouldn’t really understand that a caning and a paddling are two very different things for me. And I would certainly act out to get the former, and I work very hard to avoid the latter! Both are painful — both make me cry — but a paddling is a punishment that I cannot take any masochistic enjoyment from, and which leaves me far more vulnerable and chastened after submitting to it. (Unless Papa Otter uses the Delrin cane. That one might as well be a paddle!)
    If he and I had not been able to discuss those matters honestly, we would have had years of punishment not working properly, of me acting out, of neither of us understanding why. Who knows how long it would have taken us, if we’d denied the sexual aspects of it, to figure out that the paddle got results, while the cane got, well, different results!
    Self-delusion can only cause heartache and failure. If the DD people are going to go so far as to accept a desire to be in a relationship where there is punishment, they might as well shine that light of understanding and acceptance on the rest of it, because otherwise it would really just be better and safer to stay a vanilla. This stuff is playing with fire. You shouldn’t do it without learning basic fire-safety skills!
    Thanks for your thoughtful comment, Sara! 🙂

  3. carolinegrey

    “She is comforted and soothed by her man’s organ in a similar way an infant is comforted and soothed by their mother’s breast.”
    I can’t…I can’t even…

  4. Zille Defeu

    Yes, Caroline, exactly!
    I’m afraid my second response to reading it (after the initial horror and nervous laughter) is to drop to Beavis and Butthead levels —
    Heh. She said, “Organ”. Heh heh…!

  5. Cassady

    Excellent post! You bring up so many good points.
    I mever could understand why people think of sex and kink as bad or dirty. It’s always seemed like a perfectly natural thing to me.

  6. irish

    Thank you SO much for this post. I discovered the website yesterday (it sounds like something you would find amusing by the way!) and while at first I laughed, I was soon disgusted at the thought of couples who believe the husband should automatically have autonomy over his wife, and that the wife cannot be trusted to control her own life. As I think you also pointed out elswhere, the website suggests that women who don’t agree with this are undisciplined ballbreakers (we just can’t win can we!) and the whole thing just… disturbed me. I concur entirely with your theory that such couples just have a fetish that they are not prepared to admit to themselves and each other! Which makes me feel SO much better. Thank you again!


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