Kinks in My Punishment Kink: The Bad Girl

As I return to my punishment kink, I’m running into a problem that’s been there since I first started getting spanked as an adult: getting punished. Yes, I know. Getting punished is sorta the point, right? And a part of me really likes the getting punished part — or at least the before and after. But for another part of me it feels profoundly unhealthy as it heightens my primeval fear of being bad.

I’ve had this obsession with being good since I was little. My mom left her first husband when I was four, and brought my sister and brother and I to the town she was from and the church she grew up in. And though it was the late 1970s, and I was just a wee thing, I could sense a certain level of contempt people had towards her — one of the few divorcees in our church — and us, her children. From the very core of my being I so wanted these people to know I was good. A good Christian. A good citizen. A good girl.

Since then I’ve lived my life wanting God to know I was good. Pastors to know I was I was good. Teachers to know I was good. Doctors to know I was good. And any failure, no matter how small, left me terrified that I would yet again be the recipient of contempt. 

Once I began exploring my spanking/punishment kink, I found that there was also  something thrilling about being bad. I found a disciplinarian. I set deadlines and goals and when I fell short, I got spanked. I loved having something other than stigma as a consequence for failing. And I loved having structure and a sense of relief that somebody was going to help me be perfect.

But I’ve always had this sense of dis-ease about it also. Unlike everyone else, it seems, spanking never absolves me of guilt but just underscores how bad I am, i.e. I’m so bad I have to be punished. It’s almost like how self harm works for those with SH/SI in that it becomes a way to feel physically just how bad I feel emotionally about failing.

But, I mean, it’s not like you can have punishment without shame and guilt involved on some level, you know?

True, it’s the behavior that’s bad not the person. And my partner is indeed very caring even when he’s stern. There is always a lot of time cuddling afterwards which helps me know I’m loved and accepted regardless of my faults. Frankly, the buzz I get from that cuddling is one of the big things that I missed during our hiatus and ultimately brought me back to my punishment kink.

But somehow the minute we reinstated the discipline regime, all I could focus on was how much I failed (doing it over the phone sans cuddling was probably not the best idea). I could talk to myself positively and tell myself how most of the time I was doing very well. But being hit with a wooden spoon or a hairbrush instantly negates all of that.

Honestly? I know I respond to reward and encouragement better than punishment. But reward and encouragement don’t provide the same level of sexual and emotional buzz that punishment does.

So, is it possible to get the buzz without the trauma?

Perhaps the answer lies in confronting the issue directly. Of using punishment as an opportunity to transform guilt and shame from something sickening and terrifying into something exciting and arousing. Of using punishment to remind me that failure is an innate part of being human while perfection is not. That punishment coming from someone madly in love with me becomes a means of not just sexual expression, but also freedom to finally be bad — to be fully human — without that primeval fear.

24 thoughts on “Kinks in My Punishment Kink: The Bad Girl

  1. Rose

    I’ve been reading this blog for quite a while now, but you’ve finally forced me to delurk. I’ve never posted anything anywhere in the spanking community, so I’m actually quite nervous right now.
    Natty, this post could’ve been from my own head. I’ve been struggling with this same issue for years. My husband knows about my spanking kink and fortunately he’s a bit of a spanko himself. We have very little trouble with playful spankings. However, though we’ve been trying for years, we have not yet figured out how to deal with my need for punishment. He feels very strongly, as well he should, that he should not punish me unless I’ve done something to earn a punishment. The problem is that I don’t do things to deserve punishment because I’m terrified of being bad. My need to be good has only gotten worse since I’ve gotten married because I love my husband so much. He is the person whom I am most afraid of disappointing. I’ve considered doing bad things on purpose in order to earn a punishment, but the thought of doing so is enough to cause me to start panicking. In fact, the first of only a couple of times that I did earn a punishment in the past couple of years, I fainted when my husband told me he was “disappointed in me.” Since then he’s been extremely hesitant to punish me, and the one time he’s punished me since then he was so gentle and careful with me that it could hardly be called a punishment. So I’ve been left incredibly frustrated with the lack of structure, rules, and consequences in my life and yet terrified to have them for fear I’ll screw up. I wish I knew what to do about it.
    Anyhow, thank you for allowing me to babble. I’ve been meaning to send an email to the Punishment Book writers and thank you all for this website. I don’t know anyone in the spanking community as I’ve always been very shy about my needs. Reading this site has helped me feel not so alone.

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  2. Dyke Grrl

    I’m definitely glad A. is there to comfort you post-spankings right now.
    This is an interesting post, with a lot for me to think about. I think I get the opposite reaction… well, not exactly opposite, but different. Punishment represents closure for me, and it’s pretty much the only way I can let go of self-punishment. So having rules that I can break is less about the thrill of rule-breaking, and more about being able to signal that I need that kind of connection. And, definitely, it’s something that would be helpful in letting go of the kinds of things I tend to beat myself up over (although, mostly, W. won’t punish me for things she sees as honest mistakes, like the time last summer when I forgot to move the car when I was supposed to, and got a ticket; or the summer before that, when I forgot to pay the cell phone bill and our phones got shut off, when she was out of town…. notice how these things are still lingering for me?)
    I see punishment as the way to say, “Yes, I failed, and I feel bad about it, and I am paying the consequences of that, and I will try not to do that again.” Or else (particularly with younger parts) as a way to get someone else to say, “I see that you are feeling out of control and frustrated and are asking for reassurance that there are limits, and that those limits are safe ones, but that they will be enforced.”
    One of the hard parts for me is that, after a lifetime of not allowing myself to be bad, and also, after being an adult for nearly as much of my life as I was a kid, I just don’t know good ways of being “bad.” Especially because, deep down, I don’t want to do things that will hurt or inconvenience anyone (well, okay, other than me). But I do still want to be bad.
    For me, part of what’s difficult is the fact that, once there are rules, I both feel a strong resistance to them, and also feel really bad about not following them, as in, “If I asked for these rules, then why don’t I just follow them, instead of breaking them? Why can’t I make things easier for W.?” And it’s not like they are difficult rules to follow… but sometimes, I can’t. And then there’s the temptation to try to just not mention having broken them (I’m not so good at actual lying, but I’m a master at not mentioning things.)
    Thanks, Natty, for a thought-provoking post.
    And Rose, I’m glad you de-lurked, and that we can help you to feel less alone.

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  3. Natty

    Heya Rose — I’m glad you delurked too!
    “The problem is that I don’t do things to deserve punishment because I’m terrified of being bad.”
    Yeah, I can imagine that many of the things I’ve written about here that I’ve been punished for seem fairly trivial and it’s for that very reason. I rarely do really bad things because I’m terrified of being bad and if we waited for those moments, I’d never get punished.
    “So I’ve been left incredibly frustrated with the lack of structure, rules, and consequences in my life and yet terrified to have them for fear I’ll screw up. I wish I knew what to do about it.”
    Yup, exactly. I love the structure that our discipline regime provides, but I hate that I inevitably fail — something that I will do because I’m human. It will leave me feeling sick and freaked out.
    I don’t know that I have much of an answer either except that last paragraph. Basically, I’m going to just focus on the failing with the knowledge that punishment for it doesn’t represent the contempt I’m so afraid of but a form of affection.
    “Punishment represents closure for me, and it’s pretty much the only way I can let go of self-punishment”
    I think this is the case for the vast majority of spankos and what always makes me feel so weird. It always seems like every punishment account, every spanking story ends in the person feeling loved and absolved. I do feel loved but I never really feel absolved.
    “W. won’t punish me for things she sees as honest mistakes”
    That goes the same for us too, especially as I have problems with working memory. Though sometimes we use those honest mistakes as an excuse for a sort of pseudo-punishment. But, well, that’s just play. πŸ˜‰
    “I’m not so good at actual lying, but I’m a master at not mentioning things.”
    LOL — oh, me too! Me too!

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  4. Janey

    Hello Natty
    Something different happened to me.
    Today, as I had not adhered to certain rules set down by S, I received a very severe and ouchy spanking.
    Sparing you the details I just wonder why I felt so sulky afterwards. In fact the more soothing he was (and he was) the more stroppy and cross I became. I nearly earnt myself another punishment!
    What on earth was that about?
    Love and hugs
    Janey XXX

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  5. Iris

    OK, I’m finally getting around to replying–sorry it took me so long, Natty!
    I can totally relate to the good girl thing. All my life I’ve been a good girl: the smart one, the well-behaved one, the responsible one. And I have a really hard time showing my vulnerable, broken, cracked, flawed side to the world–particularly to people who have authority over me. Somewhere along the line I learned that it wasn’t safe to show authority figures your flaws, that you had to pretend to be perfect so they would trust you and leave you alone.
    The difference for me is that I relish finding the few people that it’s ok (read: safe) to show my flaws to. Finding the person who knows what a mess I am and loves me anyway is my dream. I’ve caught glimpses of it in certain people, but have yet to find my partner, the one who will love me no matter what. And I think that gets at the heart of my punishment kink: finding someone who KNOWS that I am not perfect, will help me along the path of becoming better, and will love me throughout the whole process. Utopian, maybe, but I’m an idealist at heart.
    Theologically, Natty, I can affirm the concept of a broken humanity who strives to be better but cannot attain perfection alone. Maybe that’s helpful?
    Any Janey, I’ve definitely experienced punishments where I’m grumpier and more defiant afterwards than I was before–both in my youth and in my adulthood! It usually means I wasn’t punished hard enough to break through my defenses (sorry if that means more trouble for you). M got quite good at reading me to know when I needed more to be “done” and when I had reached the point of feeling purged. Good luck finding your point too!
    Hugs,
    Iris

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  6. Lily

    What you wrote about your obsession to be good and the consequences of failure really resonated with me.
    For the last 6 weeks, I have been experiencing feelings of despair several times a week (partially because I think I disappointed my boss at work). I want to avoid people each time, because I’m afraid some thoughtless remark will just push me over the brink and I’ll kill myself half-accidentally, half-on-purpose. I can’t explain the dichotomy. How can I feel suicidal despair one day and fine the next? But it would be a pity to kill myself one day if I would be fine the next!
    I asked my husband to spank me, because I thought relieving my guilt feelings would reduce the despair. He didn’t think that my offenses merited spanking; instead, he spanked me for making myself upset! It makes sense that spanking could change behavior, since we control our behavior. But we can’t control our feelings and thoughts, so I never would have imagined that spanking could help β€œcure” despair. But it does seem to, so I’m trying to figure out how.
    First of all, the feeling of despair simply goes away. I was astonished to discover that a dozen smacks of the hairbrush eliminated the despair for several hours! Second, I pay a lot more attention to what my husband is saying, when our discussion takes place over his lap. I am a lot more motivated to take his advice. Third, I discovered that I really am not at the mercy of my feelings. The next day I again sank into despair at work and considered going home early, until I realized what would happen if I did. He would surely spank me again. Once I decided that I really didn’t want another spanking, I also realized that my despair was gone and I could continue working.
    We might just be experiencing beginners luck, but I sincerely hope not. I just don’t see how my life is going to change much in the next months, so all I can improve is my attitude!

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  7. Natty

    I’ve had the flu this last week so I haven’t checked in for a couple of days, or when I have, haven’t had the energy or brain capacity for coherant thought to reply to comments. On the other hand, I’ve had a lot of time in bed to consider my responses. So, well, here goes.
    Janey: Iris’s answer was my first thought about why I might still be cranky after a spanking — it wasn’t hard enough. However, there are also times that the problem is that I feel like something about it was unfair. Now, I’m very good at using my reason/intellect to completely invalidate my feelings and because that’s my automatic response, I have a hard time articulating whatever the hell I’m feeling. So, I’ll have this vague sense that something isn’t right, but I don’t really know what it is and logically and rationally everything is right and fair so I end up this sort of cranky mute afterwards.
    But, that’s just me. Your mileage may indeed vary a great deal.
    Iris: “Finding the person who knows what a mess I am and loves me anyway is my dream.”
    Oh indeed. That’s the buzz I get from punishment. The reason I missed it so much. There is something so powerful in being so very vulnerable with someone and have them not only NOT abandon you, but do something that would seem normally very uncomfortable for them (not to mention you!).
    For me the problem is that in order to achieve that buzz — and ostensibly improve habits, behaviors, etc. — we set up a rule, say, going to bed at 12am. I then will get obsessed with completely mastering that and failing to do so is very distressing for me. Now, some of it I think is that I’m incorrigibly competitive and failure feels like losing in some way (though winning is, of course, a way of feeling “loved”). Some of it may be some sort of obsessive-compulsive thing. Intellectually I’ll *know* that A. really doesn’t give a rat’s ass whether I’m in bed at midnight or 4 am — it’s all about what is healthiest for me and he’s sort of just the support helping me get there. Yet, despite knowing that, this primeval fear will rise to the surface and suddenly I’m clearly this moral degenerate for failing. Getting cuddled after the spanking helps me to feel accepted despite my moral degenerate status (the buzz), but the distress of *being* a failure remains. And it totally impinges on enjoying my punishment kink.
    So, uh, now that I’ve shown the world just what a great big mountain of crazy that I am… πŸ˜‰
    Lily: “But it would be a pity to kill myself one day if I would be fine the next!”
    That would be pity indeed! ::hugs::
    I may be misinterpreting your tone, but it sounds like you might really need a therapist. Spankings are a nice way to lift depression because they release endorphines (see Iris’s “What Now?” post). But, endorphines are temporary, whereas depression is a very serious illness, just like diabetes or heart disease, that requires medical treatment. Again, I apologize if I misinterpreted your tone and you were meaning to be more light-hearted. I’ve drunk over a half of a bottle of NyQuil this week and I’m still a bit groggy. πŸ˜‰

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  8. sparkle

    Iris: “Finding the person who knows what a mess I am and loves me anyway is my dream.”
    I used to think it was a fantasy for me, but it is achievable, Iris :).

    Natty, I understand what your saying about spanking not really absolving your guilt. Usually, I do feel absolved by a spanking, but that absolution is reinforced by real forgiveness from Chris, especially for things that were really serious. For instance, he won’t bring up the ‘forgetting to lock the doors phenomenon’ again unless I do it again, because he’s already punished me for it and it’s over.
    However, I’m afraid that in the absence of that forgiveness and sensitivity to my guilt, then I wouldn’t feel at all absolved. Playfully, it’s really quite hot for me to be closely supervised, to be checked up on, to be *watched* … but for things that aren’t at playful, I worry we would cross that line between where I need the rules and structure and caring oversight and impinge on the part of me where I absolutely must feel secure in our relationship. (Ask Chris, when I don’t feel absolutely secure in what’s between us, the world explodes in mere minutes and I’m absolutely inconsolable and already grieving for something that’s not lost.)
    I’m sometimes afraid that I will obsess or addict myself to something *so* much that Chris really would have to monitor me closely. It’s one of the things that urges me to keep trying to follow rules about caffeine and such.
    Anyway, I hope you’re feeling better. My comment kind of went off-track, but those are the things that I’ve been contemplating about your post.
    sparkle (another ‘good girl’ to this day)

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  9. Natty

    “My comment kind of went off-track, but those are the things that I’ve been contemplating about your post.”
    And often it’s those slightly off-track things that make for great conversation. πŸ™‚
    The forgiveness bit is always a sort of puzzling thing for me. I don’t know that I’ve every really truly felt like I’ve directly wronged A. I mean, being as neurotic as I am, I’ve done plenty that’s gotten on his nerves at times or have accidently done something to potentially harm something he values (er…I know that’s vague but the examples that come to mind are not bloggable). But maybe it has to do with him because he has this remarkable ability to let everything roll off of him. He can let stuff go with a mere shrug of the shoulders whereas I pathologically cling to everything. Which means I never feel like I need forgiveness from him. Well, aside from those few accidental incidences mentioned above and then he’s very forthcoming with forgiveness and setting my mind at ease but spanking usually isn’t involved with that. I dunno. I suppose there have been a few times where I’ve done something that’s gotten on his nerves where he will spank me, and even though it’s really more of a sort of pseudo-punishment, it does have the effect of making me feel forgiven.
    But, I suspect for me the reason the forgiveness thing is puzzling is I’m too afraid to ever do anything really bad. That’s just too much of a risk.
    Hmm…that probably didn’t really address your comment…
    “sparkle (another ‘good girl’ to this day)”
    See, I think there’s a pattern there. I don’t know that we’re all good girls for the same reason, but good girls are definitely drawn to the punishment kink.
    “Anyway, I hope you’re feeling better.”
    I *am*, thanks. πŸ™‚ Even got dressed today!

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  10. sparkle

    Natty: “I don’t know that we’re all good girls for the same reason”
    I don’t think we are. I am a good girl because I was a social outcast as a child (at least, from my own age group). The reasons for this are not relevant but discussable if needed.
    However, as a result, I spent a great deal of time spending time with and seeking approval from those outside my age group – i.e., adults. I still get a secret thrill when I do something that pleases someone else and I know I’ve pleased them. And I get more of a thrill from doing it perfectly.
    Hence, straight-A-student, top of my class, first chair in my instrument, perfect handwriting… *musing* too bad my chemistry lab book was never quite right. I had some stunning failures as a prospective scientist.
    sparkle

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  11. raven

    Sparkle — Your comment “I spent a great deal of time spending time with and seeking approval from those outside my age group – i.e., adults. I still get a secret thrill when I do something that pleases someone else and I know I’ve pleased them. And I get more of a thrill from doing it perfectly…” is nicely articulated and describes my own experience very well. The thrill of pleasing another and doing things perfectly is the inverse of the strength with which I self criticize when I don’t do things as well, or when I take on too much work and get overwhelmed.
    In this context, punishment serves a myriad of purposes. It is corrective, but that correction isn’t the only use of punishment. Punishment can meet a need of a person for catharsis or satisfy an internal sense of justice, among other things. It likely wouldn’t be as universal a kink if it didn’t respond to so many deep longings in so many hearts.
    Your mileage may vary…
    Raven

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  12. Dyke Grrl

    I’m too afraid to ever do anything really bad. That’s just too much of a risk.
    Boy, howdy. (As W. likes to say.)
    I struggle mightily with this. Despite the fact that, back when W. and I were first dating I had, er, encouraged my bratty streak to an unreasonable degree… I still have trouble allowing myself to do something bad. I even have trouble, once in the context of a scene, to allow myself to disobey instructions (and when the scene involves a bratty, rebellious schoolgirl, the meek, instruction-following person I become is sharply out of context!)
    At the same time, I am realizing that one of the things I absolutely have to do, in the context of improving my mental health, is to understand that the consequences for “being bad” are no longer so dire as they used to be. Part of that is easy, in the sense that while I might get stressed out about not doing housework, W. seems to be impressed with even the minimal amounts I manage now, let alone what I can do when I’m more ok.
    But being bad… expressing feelings, acting out. And sometimes, just pushing at boundaries. I can see how necessary it is, in order to convince the kid-parts that, in fact, W. is NEVER going to demean them, beat them up, reject them, not even if they are as bad as they can possibly be. And they (I) really do need to get to a point where that concept is believable.
    As for times when I’ve actually done something to hurt W. directly… I have a really hard time *believing* I’m forgiven, or forgiving myself, or something that would allow me to let go of an incident. Intellectually, I can see that she has forgiven me, since she does seem sincere in saying so. Emotionally, though, there are things I still feel bad about.
    I still get a secret thrill when I do something that pleases someone else and I know I’ve pleased them. And I get more of a thrill from doing it perfectly.
    I don’t so much get a thrill out of that as expect myself to accomplish that constantly. It’s a very hard thing to let go of, particularly considering that my “reward” (in the absence of something external) is that I don’t get wracked with anxiety and self-criticism. I’m working on letting go of perfection, and it’s an uphill battle.
    It likely wouldn’t be as universal a kink if it didn’t respond to so many deep longings in so many hearts.
    That’s very true, Raven. And it’s what makes conversations here so interesting.

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  13. Jovee

    All so interesting- and I have co-incidentally been having this conversation with my friend- not face to face but via text- definitely easier.
    It all makes sense in that I need him to accept me as both ‘good girl’ and ‘naughty girl’, and feel sure that this is because throughout my life I have made an effort to be ‘good girl’… and therefore always felt I have failed a great deal. I am equally sure that this comes from emotional abandonment by my mother when I was tiny…and always having that feeling of never being worthy or good enough for her- and if she felt that way, so must everyone else would if I wasn’t very good….
    My friend provides a safe structure for me to be naughty (er, sometimes this is deliberate, sometimes it is incidental..) but I can be a normal human being with feelings and failings in this environment, which is wonderfully cathartic. The ‘closure’ after my misdeeds after being punished feels wonderful..as does the tingly fear, anticipation of it beforehand. The feelings during vary from ‘sulky- how- dare -you’ to ‘mmm this feels great’ to ‘ouch -I am going- to- be- good -for- a -long -time!’
    And having been very naughty recently (and found out) I face the latter in a very big way in the, er, near future….
    Hope you are now fully recovered Natty. xxx Jovee

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  14. Natty

    Oh wow, where to start? You ladies really triggered the memories and thoughts! In fact, I think sparkle’s post inspired a dream I had last night of being back in my old high school. LOL
    I also always craved adult approval. For some reason, despite being fat and going to a different elementary school every year, I was never all that bothered about my peers. While I was never one of the “popular” kids, I always had at least a few friends to hang out with. But damn did I need my teachers to love me! I spent my junior year of high school despairing that both my mom and my trigonometry teacher didn’t like me. And the sad thing is, I think I was more upset about my trig teacher’s lack of approval.
    Now, this is WAY off topic, but all I could think of when I read your comments, sparkle and raven, was about my Arabic grammar class in grad school. Our teacher spent the first term instilling absolutely terror of him in us. In fact, I think the only thing he was missing was the big stick to hit us with (and don’t think I didn’t fantasize about THAT!) The second day of class when we turned in our first assignment, I wasn’t sure how he wanted us to attach multiple pages. When he took my papers, he shook his head fiercly and said “all papers MUST be stapled! I will not accept non-stapled assignments!” So, I looked up at him eagerly and said, “Oh I have a stapler!” Then reached into my backpack, pulled out my mini-stapler and handed back my assignment to him. His eyes lit up as he nodded to me with a smile and said, “now this is a girl who’s prepared!” I think I must have been positively *glowing*! The rest of the term, whenever the other students were messing up, he’d shake his head and hand in disdain, then turn to me and shout, “Michelle, what’s the right answer?!” (I had been placed in the lower level grammer class by mistake, which turned out to be great for daily ego boosts, if not for advancing my grammer skills). Finally he began asking me on exam day to pick up the exams and, basically, proctor the exam for our class. I was so excited. Except one day as I was placing our completed exams in his box, I noticed just how thrilled I was and thought, “oh my god, Michelle! You’re almost 24 years old and you’re still *this* excited about being teacher’s pet! How pathetic is that?!” Yes, yes, pathetic indeed.
    Okay, sorry again for that lengthy and a bit off-topic vignette but it made me laugh last night when I thought about it…
    “Punishment can…satisfy an internal sense of justice”
    Hmm, that’s a really interesting point, raven, that I suspect does reflect part of why I’ll crave punishment when I do something wrong. I think I’ll have to ponder that a bit more.
    “I even have trouble, once in the context of a scene, to allow myself to disobey instructions”
    Once again, my dear Dyke Grrl, we are so on the same wave length. LOL Indeed, when I first started out getting spanked, I not only did just what I was told (which, say, made it difficult for role playing in spanking chat rooms), including bending over to be spanked when I was so ordered, but wouldn’t even hardly make any noise when I was getting thrashed because that seemed bad somehow.
    And like you, the approach I’m finding to be the best is to realize being bad is not the end of the world. Some of that has involved pushing the envelope in terms of play, like I did last summer in my “Resistance is futile but fun” post on my blog, and finding out A. actually really enjoys that. Some of it has been A. “being bad” like, say, the summer before last when he was smoking in my campus housing apartment. At first I was really freaked out but when nothing happened, I calmed down to mild internal distress. Eventually he did get caught — which meant I got in trouble — but the world didn’t come to an end. Not even a little. His shoot-the-breeze approach to rules has been really good for me. But it’s one of the ironies about our relationship that always makes me laugh at how we’re sorta anti-spanking fiction. πŸ˜‰
    The thing I keep trying to remind myself in terms of our disciplinary arrangements is that I WILL fail at times. Maybe even a lot. But at the end of the day, I will still succeed more than I fail, and it’s the punishment that comes with the failing that will provide that success. If I can let go of perfection and embrace my humanity, I will be a happier, healthier person.
    “My friend provides a safe structure for me to be naughty”
    Exactly, Jovee. And that freedom is great!
    “I face the latter in a very big way in the, er, near future….”
    Oh dear. I hope it’s not too dreadful!
    “Hope you are now fully recovered Natty.”
    All but a little bit of hoarsness. In fact, I’m going to be posting about our NyQuil sex on my blog sometime today. He he he… πŸ˜‰

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  15. raven

    Natty wrote, “The thing I keep trying to remind myself in terms of our disciplinary arrangements is that I WILL fail at times. Maybe even a lot. But at the end of the day, I will still succeed more than I fail, and it’s the punishment that comes with the failing that will provide that success. If I can let go of perfection and embrace my humanity, I will be a happier, healthier person.”
    You know, if you were into writing lines, this would be a totally cool thing to write enough times so that it would be permanently ingrained in your memory. πŸ˜‰
    Blessings,
    raven

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  16. Natty

    “Or else (particularly with younger parts) as a way to get someone else to say, “I see that you are feeling out of control and frustrated and are asking for reassurance that there are limits, and that those limits are safe ones, but that they will be enforced.”
    I was thinking about this line of yours, Dyke Grrl, yesterday as I was laying down for my nap. I kind of wonder if a lot of my problem is that your point there is the way my Natty self interacts with spanking. That she craves the limits and reassurance spanking provides and misses it desperately when it’s not there. Whereas for my Michelle self, she really just needs lots of hugs and constant reminders of how well she’s doing. Trying to satisfy both of them when their needs seem mutally exclusive is really hard.
    “You know, if you were into writing lines, this would be a totally cool thing to write enough times so that it would be permanently ingrained in your memory. ;-)”
    You know, Raven? A. always threatens to make me write lines but he never does. Well, once he did using Yahoo doodle but that was only five lines or so. If he reads this, well, he just might. πŸ˜‰

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  17. Dyke Grrl

    Ack!! No lines!! It *seems* like it would be a hot part of a fantasy, but, HOO BOY, you do not want lines!! (Interesting aside: did you know that, at least in NYC, writing lines is considered corporal punishment, and not allowed. Oddly, making the kids copy an apology letter isn’t, and neither is making them write out their times tables several times. Just repetitive lines.)
    As for the ways different parts respond to spanking: yeah, I definitely know that! Some parts don’t need it, some parts really need it. More than that, some parts fall apart with just a stern look, and others need a hard spanking. I’m realizing that, the more familiar I get with my parts, the better able I am to communicate to W. who is present, and therefore, to actually feel like my needs are being met. However, I’m fortunate in that my parts are sufficiently separate that the parts who don’t need spankings are generally not around during spankings!
    Not that I’d recommend splitting off into different parts, but is it possible you can tell your Michelle part to take a hike (or, um, go meditate or something like that) for the time when your Natty part is getting spanked, and to come back at the cuddling part? I wouldn’t try to meet both their needs simultaneously, myself, since they seem so contradictory.

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  18. raven

    Dyke Grrl — As much as I’ve always loved math…NOT!!! I think that writing out multiplication tables is definitely closer to cruel and unusual punishment than anything else of the corporal punishment variety.
    But then again, I *am* a bit of smart-assed bottom from time to time and not a mathematician, so go figure. πŸ˜‰
    I wonder if the aspect of contradictory needs and parts is just part of being the complex people that we are as humans; perhaps we’re all working at integrating these various aspects that are part of the totality of who we have been created to be.
    While the different parts of who I am aren’t readily identifiable by age, per se, I do struggle mightily with trying to integrate parts of my identity as a woman of strong Catholic faith, a wife and mother, a feminist bisexual kinkster who mostly tops these days but fantasizes about just the right top to carefully and totally deconstruct any silly notions of control I have on days when others might simply want Calgon to take them away.
    Incidentally, I’ve been attempting to blog about such attempts at integration lately. Lest I convince someone I’ve arrived at some sort of integration, let me assure the gentle reader that no such thing has happened, as can be evidenced by my less than accepting reaction the last time C spanked me and the puzzlement it continues to evoke in me.
    Sorry this comment seems a bit discombobulated; I’ve been away from home for the past week for work, and it’s officially gotten old as of today!
    raven

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  19. raven

    Just want to amend my post a bit — but I don’t think it can be done after posting.
    My comments on “parts” being all about integration is a bit of an oversimplification — I can really only speak from my own experience, of course, and mine is not the only right view on the subject, or any other subject, for that matter.
    If only anything were ever that easy.
    Peace and blessings to all,
    raven

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  20. Natty

    Ugh…I spoke to soon about being better…grrr…Sorry I’m a few day late getting back to this.
    “Interesting aside: did you know that, at least in NYC, writing lines is considered corporal punishment, and not allowed.”
    Interesting indeed!
    Yeah I remember your post about W. making your write lines and it definitely didn’t sound pleasant. I think if A. made me write lines, it would be with me lying on the bed using my Dr. Grip pen endorsed by the Arthritis foundation. πŸ˜‰
    “I’m fortunate in that my parts are sufficiently separate”
    See, I’m not sure if my parts are. I still haven’t figured out for certain if it’s Natty or Michelle freeking out about being spanked. My bratty mood is definitely Natty, so I just assume it’s Michelle that doesn’t handle the spanking well. On the other hand, whenever I get into my “little girl mood” — which is usually my “Natty mood” — I start feeling scared when the spanking is something serious in both a good and very bad way.
    LOL my therapist definitely has her work cut out for her. πŸ˜‰
    “I wonder if the aspect of contradictory needs and parts is just part of being the complex people that we are as humans;”
    Oh I think that’s true. We all compartmentalize on some level. For Dyke Grrl and others with DID it’s on a more intense level. For me, I think it goes beyond normal compartmentalization but I’m not sure if it’s quite at the DID level (which isn’t really one level but a spectrum of level). I dunno. But I think you’re right that being human is a great deal about working to integrate a number of disperate parts. And just to sound really pretentious, I think modernity has made that task much more complex, which is both bad and good.
    Er…lordy I’m starting to babble about modernity. That’s a clear sign it’s time for me to shut the hell up. πŸ˜‰

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  21. Mary

    Wow, Did you ever touch on a nerve Nstty. I was gun ho for posting how you seemed to express what I experience but did not know how to express. Then I read all the comments and realized that there are many of us with serious “good girls” complexes – that NEED to be spanked in order to let ourselves be bad (or in reality – to be human) BTW Lily I would have fainted too! I hate to disappoint anyone. WOW -Natty Did you have any idea the reaction you would get when you posted?

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  22. Tanya

    Hi Natty,
    I just found this posting and totally resonate with it, and I wanted to sort of say what I’ve come to feel good about: I never want to be spanked for a real reason. I want to be spanked only for absurd, funny reasons.
    If I make a real mistake, I want my partner to live the spiritual mantra, β€œthere are no mistakes,” and practice their non-judgment. That leaves room for my learning mechanism to do its thing, which is already in overdrive, so there’s no amount of my partner being dramatic that can make me learn more. I feel like there is no standard that any spanker could hold me to that would be higher than the one I hold myself to.
    Because my being good and pleasing mechanisms are in full effect, I find punishment for reasons that I am aware of (real reasons, real mistakes) to be kind of predictable, tedious, boring, and obnoxious. I find much more joy and transcendence in spankings that are efforts on the part of my partner to center me, or bring me to a level of awareness that I really could not access any other way. In other words, once I know the mistake, my mechanism takes care of it. If I’m blind to something, then possibly a spanking could bring me into the present moment and wake me up to some truth.
    Regarding the whole perfectionism thing, I’m currently exploring my own narcissism, pleasing behaviors, and control issues, all of which are such a lonely box to be stuck in… and I wish everyone a way out of those patterns so that we all feel free to always share our truths and be known and loved.
    Thanks for this blog!

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  23. Jess

    I was just wondering what other sorts of punishments you seek. My BF wants to be punished but I have no idea where to start. I will ask him what he wants. I will. But, I would feel a little better if I had a place to start?
    thanks.

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  24. Natty

    Hiya Jess,
    My first thought is to say, yes, definitely ask your BF because communication is so important. However, if I’m being really honest, I know that I often just magically expect my boyfriend to just *know* how to punish me and find it really hard telling him how to do it. Which isn’t fair, of course. Eventually I have had to break down and tell him some things. At least say something like, “if you wanted to punish me this way, it’s okay.”
    At some point, you will need to talk with him to know what he expects, what you expect, what his limits are, what would be too distressing, etc.
    Most punishments for me involve spanking. Scolding of some sort. Though I also respond well to encouragement, like “I know you’re really a good girl who just needs a little help being good.” Writing lines has been helpful as punishment because it’s both meditative and drives the lesson home. Standing in the corner is also helpful for thinking about what I’ve done.
    If you need more suggestions, I would direct you to a great site that one of the bloggers here, Dyke Grrl (aka Jigsaw Analogy), started specifically for people to talk about punishment and get suggestions from others who use punishment and discipline in their relationships. It’s called “This Thing We Do” and you can find it at: http://www.thisthingwedo.com/forum/
    Hope that’s helpful!

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